thoughts after upgrading PostNote from 1.5 to 2.5

I've managed an upgrade from 1.5 5o 2.5 with PostNote. Couple of "lessons learned" that may help here.

1. It doesn't UPGRADE well. It INSTALLS on a fresh clean Joomla just fine. *I decided to completely re-implement the template.* Yes that means that I did reconsider using PostNote and changing to another template. Upgradability has been a weakness in previous Joomla versions, and this the design behind this template is not much different.

OK, if you're still reading and not just flaming me for the previous comment, here are some more thoughts related to upgrading PostNote.

2. Related to #1, it seems that there are template positions on the home page in 1.5 that simply weren't in the 2.5 version of the template of they were in different places (user11-20 as I recall). So stuff got "lost". This is further complicated by the fact that I am not constrained to use "valid" module positions in Joomla, meaning it was not clear why a given position didn't work. When I studied the position placements in PostNote 2.5 very carefully, it became much more clear what was going on.

3. After I ran jupgrade and went to the new site, I never could see the PostNote template until I did "discover". But even after I discovered, it didn't work. On to the next point.

4. If PostNote was installed in 1.5 and you upgraded to 2.5, you couldn't easily uninstall PostNote. Basically I couldn't "panic" and try to "do over" once I realised I had the problem. I had to use SQL to delete the PostNote rows from __template_styles table and then delete the PostNote directory from the Joomla template directory. (note: I needed to make another template the default before I did that!) Then I could install the 2.5 PostNote template and get around to completing the upgrade/reinstallation.

5. The template configuration has a new and, in my mind, MOST silly automation that keeps popping open when you hover over it, resizing the text and fields all the while. It makes using a 1024 x 768 display almost impossible. Another instance of usability that Gavick overlooked. They seem to have designed this for HD wide screen displays.

A couple of other tips, not related to PostNote, but worth knowing as you start down that road.

1. I studied the posting in
https://www.gavick.com/forums/postnote/ ... 14020.html
as it seemed to related to my situation. It may be helpful to read through that, but don't be too frustrated when you start. (I'm in software support too, and found that interchange most interesting and somewhat entertaining, but I digress.) What I finally decided there is that Gavick never intended this template to be an upgrade, unfortunately they didn't make it easy to figure that out too.

2. The 1.5 jupgrade module only seems to upgrade "core" modules. Unfortunately Joomla has a "custom" and a "mod_custom" module type, and only the "mod_custom" upgraded. I found that by using SQL to modify the module types that were "custom" to "mod_custom" that they came across with no issues. Your mileage may vary. jupgrade can be configured to drop the target tables, so there is a form of a "do over" there.

3. I'm a K2 user and the previous point means all of the modules related to K2 needed to be manually rebuilt. Menu's too, but once K2 was installed, it was simply a matter to open the item and hit save. There are other threads about this, but in my simple site, that approach was the fastest. YMMV

Best wishes to others that embark down this road.

Hi

Yes our templates got 2 versions for 1.5and 2.5. Which means that both are having a different structure. After joomla update a 2.5 version of the template is required.

Yes support and who gavick is going to code a new version of template for the joomla updated version makes me cry. If you compare this with other bigger template developers such like http://www.yootheme.com or http://www.rockettheme.com this is just a qeustion how I want to treat the customers. Regarding the postnote template. Gavick tell us that there are two different versions of the template. One for 1.5 and one for 2.5. This is very strange. Seems that gavick does not take care of users that already using the old version and want to upgrade in a time efficient way using K2 for example and so on. This is not customer relationship friendly. Just as I have started a project with the old postnote I have to fully set up a new page as a migration was very unsatisfied regarding the different positions, the no more existing mega menu (https://www.gavick.com/forums/postnote/ ... 16163.html) and the change of the wohle framework. Doing this without informing the customers. Gavick was just taking a new framework unless there are people that are using the old template with the old T3 framework. Don´t think about if they want to upgrade to the new version. Sounds strang? Yes, I even think that this was already thought by gavick, but taken the easiest way not to document, not to inform and not to support the changes to the customers in a proper way.

Support and the way how Gavick is treating its customers makes me cry again. So I have tp finish my project, but be sure, that I think about never use Gavick as a template-partner. Ok. I bought a lifetime membership and the support has no difference to a cheaper memebership, but I will think twice if a customer asks for a template from gavick. I just will suggest e.g. http://www.yootheme.com or http://www.rockettheme.com Actually there is a great service within a day. At Gavick it take ages to get a note and this is in most cases a one or two line message, that the problem a user have occours of a 3rd party component even if thex haven´t test it and didn´t take a look closer to the issue.

Very frustrating. Anyway, but you can see what I mean if you read this thread. A customer has problems and is going to help other members with tricks and links for help and the only answer is a two line message that the new template postnote is needing the new joomla 2.5 ! Absurd, but a nice example of what I´m talking about!

Hi

I do not understand what is wrong about having a different version for J1.5 and J2.5. New joomla has brought new feautures and using template for old joomla simply means that it cannot be used. I'm tracking work of other joomla template clubs and they got 2 versions of templates too. So obviously Your issue is not related with that. Please tell me what Your issue is exacly. I'm sure I'll be able to help.

Hi teitbite,

seems that I just have found a member of the support team, that is serious interested in helping. Not sure if this is just to early to evaluate. But lets see:

this is my problem beneth or or two others, but lets get start with the main thing:

https://www.gavick.com/forums/postnote/ ... tml#p75033

I´m not against of to versions of templates in general, but my point is, that after a migration, that was actually not possible as a K2 user and a gk_postnote user. I had to rebuild the whole site from scratch, I´m pretty sure that you cannot show me a user where the successfull migration even with K2 and the new template version og gk_postnote was working. I´ve read a lot of threads. Seems that there were big bugs left and not tested just before release the new version. Therefore my question if it doesn´t make sense as joomla has released the new version, to test a converted template with precisely the ne joomla version with a migration. I wonder why this was not done acurately as there were bugs from the very fist beginning and no documentation that some things may have changed after a migration. And belive me I already know what the migration makes it different to an update. Take a look at the whole thread: https://www.gavick.com/forums/postnote/ ... 14020.html

Anyway I will give the support a try, maybe you can offer efficient help. Not sure, but I posted it in the thread mentioned above.

Just one thing regarding other template developers. I have migrated successfully more than a dozen websites all from other template developers and they all work like a charme. Just a few tabsolutely minor issues as double safe the old articles and the menuitems! Thats it. Ready to go for 2.5. But I´m pretty sure that you can help me fixing my issues regarding gk_postnote.

Lets see what can be done!

Thanks so far

Hi

Sure I'll take a look at Your threads in an hour or two (got dozens of other users question in line first).

But maby I'll tell something about J1.5 and J2.5(J1.6 back then) first. As You know to speed up a process of making templates every template club needs to have a framework. For J1.5 we were using a T3 framework which was a Joomlart product, but when an information that J1.6 will be out and it will have a different structure so we come up with an idea to make our own club framework which is called Gavern. This is why our templates for J1.5 and J1.6/J1.7/J2.5 are completly different. Which unfortunately means that module positions may not fit exacly. This is the whole filosophy

Before You start to complain on such solution You should check other clubs. For example T3 framework of Joomlart comes in 2 versions for J1.5 and J2.5.

[!Hijack alert!]

Please don't understand my concern being that there are two versions. Or even that the two versions are built on completely incompatible frameworks that result in radical incompatibilities.

My first concern was that after successfully upgrading/rebuilding all of the Joomla data including articles, K2 content, modules, etc. I installed the NEW v2.5 module. That installation failed. Regardless of the changes in the framework and the module positions, the installation failed and required some brute force SQL and OS machinations to remove the older one in order to get the newer one to install. That simply should not be. At a minimum, the new one should have detected the old one, removed it and installed over it. (By the way, upgrading the 2.5 one was just as much of a circus, but I digress.)

The second concern is that there is no way to migrate template data from one version to the other. As a suggestion, it would have been MOST helpful to have a single doc that says "THIS was the previous module layout, and THIS is the new layout." And include it in the 2.5 package. Or another suggestion, how about a function that said "export a .json file from the previous template and we'll import what we can into the new package."

I still like Gavick products. But, I'm VERY grateful that I got a license that allowed me to upgrade and read and read and read.

I'm noticing that Gavick, like many software shops, seems focused on new product rather than "lifecycle" issues - living with their products through upgrades, updates, etc. They are certainly not unique to that problem, just more humorous to watch as they dance around what really should be simple issues if the product were laid out better.

Stay involved. Stay plugged in. Keep up the good work.

Hi

Sure I understand that. But what You are saying about problems with installation after upgrade must be a jUpgrade or joomla itself issue. We are not changing joomla code in any place so installation function is totaly out of our juristiction.

Also I've never noticed moving modules as issue as long as I had to installed it again and configure it from beginning, but for sure I have more experience with configuring our products. I'll try to force a couple of articles about updates in our documentation pages.

uh...I don't think I'm getting through here. Indeed it works with a fresh install!

What I'm trying to communicate is that I'm trying to live with the product for some time now, and part of "living" with it is upgrading it. Think about it for a minute... it sounds like you are suggesting that we rekey a couple hundred articles into a new install to affect an upgrade!

This is NOT a jupgrade issue. The modules, articles, etc. converted fine. Trying to make them work with the new template and template engine was like implementing all over again because stuff changed so dramatically.

I just think the whole process could have been thought through a bit better.

Hi

No, no. I'm using jUpgrade too and from my experience I know that not every modules got update so lightly. In most cases I was working with I had to install a different versions of modules and configure it. The same is with our products, after an update all modues should be replaced with it's J2.5 version and configure again.

In such cases I simply install quickstart and copy all settings for modules.